Develop a "basic backup schedule" mode for when Tado outage or loss of internet
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@jcwacky yeah, i know about the button, but my issue is I have a combi boiler with opentherm and hot water control enabled, so i can schedule the temp for different times of the day, 40˚c during the day, so water is hot enough to wash up and I don't need to add cold water to it, and at night for showers etc, to 48˚c, the shower mixer tap need higher temp as the mixer has built in anti-scalding so always add some cold. ATM with no internet there is no way for me to change the temps and it is locked into 40˚c. So with no internet i have no control over hot water temps.
Does anyone know of a Smart Thermostat system that allows TRV's to call for heat like tado˚ all the one i have looked at just seem to open / close the TRV valves, It also needs to support OpenThem.
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@andyblac you can set the hot water temperature on your Tado thermostat manually - you won’t be able to set a schedule but you can still control the temperature.0
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@what_a_tado outages inevitably happen, often at the worst times.. as I found recently when my phone line/internet was damaged by workmen.
Pure and simple, Tado has the most basic vulnerability that they have shown no interest in resolving.
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@Flow Sure outages happen but @andyblac said that Virgin Media Broadband was offline AGAIN. Personally, I would look at switching broadband provider if that was a regular occurrence.
With regards Tado's lack of interest in resolving the issue, their representatives have stated more than once on this forum that they are unable to introduce a basic backup schedule on this iteration of their hardware. Whether people wish to believe that or not is up to them but if it is a major issue for them I would suggest that they look at an alternative thermostat which offers an offline solution e.g. Hive.
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@what_a_tado
V3+ now, so there has been many opportunities to address this vulnerability along the way. Tado just haven’t.
V4 has been rumoured for well over a year, and despite staff members highlighting other new features in this thread, there is no word on developing basic offline scheduling.
Based on track record.. it doesn’t look good does it?0 -
@johnnyp78 don't see a way too, if i press the button on any of my Wireless Thermostats all I see is Room temp. How do you set Water Temp then ?
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If you look in settings > hot water, it should tell you which thermostat is set to control your hot water1
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@jcwacky correct, and with no internet, this mean no control over hot water, it is beyond stupid. Internet is still off, really need to find a replacement I'm done with tado˚. I have been on my phone most of the trying to find one, but all the other are either Google shite or alexa I don't want either as I want full local control.
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@andyblac look at what @johnbur wrote. One of your thermostats should be set to control hot water.1
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@GrayDav4276 Based on the hints we've seen, and reading between the lines, I'm optimistic that a new version will include a local fallback schedule, and I expect it to be out within the next 12 months. As for whether existing users will just be able to purchase a new bridge, or if we'll need to replace all our kit, I feel it could go either way, but obviously hope it isn't the latter!
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@jcwacky given that the two Tado members of staff who gave these hints many months ago have now abandoned these forums, I don't have your confidence, and I sit firmly in the cynics camp, but I hope you are right!1
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@jcwacky from memory the only hint we have received is that this issue is ‘a priority’? Whereas other features like better integration and stronger connectivity had actually been witnessed in dev by the moderators?
And on the contrary, we had a fairly honest comment from one of the mods highlighting the cost/benefit analysis required for new features - it was not clear in this case whether Tado see this vulnerability the same way we do.
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So this all leaves the big question "Are there any other better options out there ?"
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I think Hive and Drayton are the key contenders in the UK.
Although it seems that while they do understand the basics and therefore have local scheduling, they also have their own other issues (at least they did a 18mths ago during my peak-Tado-buyers-remorse). I’m hopeful they will improve over time!
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@Flow Its not really a vulnerability more a design decision by Tado based on their belief that a manual fallback option being available in case of a lost internet connection is sufficient.
Whether a basic backup schedule is included in the next iteration of their hardware is anyone's guess.
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I went all-in on Tado during lockdown in autumn 2020, when I had loads of time on my hands. I seem to be pretty lucky in having a reliable internet connection (even having moved between ISPs with entirely separate fiber infrastructure, for cost reasons, since then), and I've generally been happy with Tado.
Key to getting happy with it, however, was solving the problem caused by smart TRVs being right next to the heat sources, which I achieved using cheap zigbee thermostats connected to a Raspberry Pi running Home Assistant. This was game changing...
... to the point that, if I were starting again, I would probably go full-on geek and put together a fully DIY system using Home Assistant and ZigBee/z-wave sensors, actuators and relays.
An example is discussed here; the length of the article alone shows that it's a pretty chunky project, though: https://siytek.com/the-ultimate-home-assistant-diy-thermostat-guide-for-single-or-multiple-zone-heating/
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Well that’s perhaps a difference of opinion. But in my view with the app defunct, and my house and water stone cold (unless I run around the house, remove the battery from each each TRV to defeat the child lock, then manually override each radiator, each hour (my manual overrides are set to 60 mins)) then yes I do absolutely class Tado as vulnerable to an internet outage. In this scenario Tado ceases to be any use to me.
On the other hand, in the scenario that the heating is stuck on.. and unable to be turned off without physically resetting or turning off your boiler - is that not a pretty fundamental vulnerability?
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I am thinking the same thing, but just in pure HomeKit, and code my own Shelly rely to Heating relay HomeKit. I'll have to drop OpenTherm, but Weather Comp should be just as efficient.
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It's also worth mentioning that you can - I think - use Home Assistant or Homekit with Tado hardware to create a fully locally-controlled solution. I think it's all-or-nothing, though: you have to detach the Tado hardware from the cloud so you lose Tado smart scheduling. Although you can do similar - and probably more flexible, if anything - scheduling in HA, I've decided not to go down this route, mainly because the Tado app is more accessible than HA substitutes for other householders to use. (And because I'm not worried about my merry connection.)
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Did anyone really expect a 'smart system' to be missing basic functionality that a dumb system has no problem with? I'm lucky because we have a pretty stable internet connection, and now that Tado manages to actually resume by itself after a loss of power or internet we rarely experience issues anymore. I still actively discourage people from Tado purchases however, as I just can't recommend it for many of the reasons already mentioned on the thread.
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@Flow neither of those (Drayton or Hive) support TRV's calling for heat, they just open and close the TVR valve. So that not the same and pretty much a step backwards.
EDIT:
apparently the Drayton Wiser TRV's can "Call for Heat", it is just a shame it does not support HomeKit.
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"Drayton Wiser TRV's can "Call for Heat", it is just a shame it does not support HomeKit."
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Suspect they won't specifically add HomeKit because they said pretty early on that they were all in on Matter. I've not been following it closely but a quick Google found this article, it seems they've definitely taken steps to be Matter compatible.
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Using IFTT to reset at 1am.
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Does anyone have any experience with Salus Quantum stats? It appears they do not lose the program if the internet goes down.
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Nice cold house to wake up to this morning with Virginmedia total outage. At least I had hot water as I use hive for this0
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Hive TRVs can call for heat, the Hive term is "Heat on Demand" (HOD) but it doesn't work at all well, that's why I abandoned the system for Tado . . .
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@hugbilly thanks, but got Wiser, and with Home Assistant it miles better, does "passive mode" (do not call for heat) and it can be done via schedules, it way more powerful. The OpenTherm is not as efficient as tado˚, but I have purchased the weather comp kit for my boiler, just waiting for GAS Safe to fit it, as doing my self will invalidate my warranty
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