Develop a "basic backup schedule" mode for when Tado outage or loss of internet
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@nicmul This is by no means a solution for the problem in this thread, but check this out: https://support.tado.com/en/articles/4849690-how-can-i-deactivate-child-lock-when-the-smart-radiator-thermostat-can-t-connect-to-the-app0
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Yes, disabling child lock is only temporary. As soon as the connection with the cloud is re-established the child lock switches back on.
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I've only just installed my Tado today and didn't realise it won't work without internet...this is a must have feature! Crazy it doesn't have fallback.1
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@jcwacky I've only just seen the original reply.
I'm sorry but the reasons given, for not having offline scheduling mode on a request that, from what I can see has the most votes on the site, is poor.
I cannot believe that the bridge device doesn't have any sense of time capability in hardware. IC's literally run on timing in ticks and generally it's pretty easy to convert that to seconds, even if it's not 100% reliable without a dedicated timer chip (which you probably have anyway!). Take the last know time from the server and run on ticks for the schedule, until connection returns, then re-sync.
I've just requested to return mine to the shop and I'll be replacing it with a Hive, which definitely has offline mode, as it should be!
Regards.
TadoToday (Trevor)
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There's going to be some sort of clock/timing-signals in the devices, and pretty accurate ones, at least, or it can't work with ethernet, or the radio, etc. as that requires timing. The firmware might not be set up to use it for longer term timekeeping, or have any idea of what time it is, and that isn't needed for what it is doing now, so the original answer is probably just a bit of a simplification. Still not a good reason to lock people out from their own devices, so they can't easily rig up a couple of scheduled cron jobs to change schedules for them from a local PC/NAS etc.0
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@TadoToday I would seriously caution you about the Hive system if you intend to include that company’s TRVs. The latter are utterly unfit for the job, particularly with regard to their control of the boiler (what Hive calls HOD, heat on demand) as you will discover if you visit the Hive forum. I returned mine and changed to Tado. Yes, the need for internet connection is infuriating if there’s a drop out, and a range extender is much needed but overall I’ve been very pleased whereas with Hive I was tearing my hair out because of the TRVs. However, if I was to start again from scratch, I think I’d choose the Drayton “Wiser” system . . .1
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My internet has been out this last week and thank god the weather has been warm. Crazy. I’ve bought a wifi box to fall Tado back to, but it’s unacceptable it doesn’t follow a fall back schedule.1
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As all previously stated:
1. The fact that the system needs Internet to work SHOULD BE WRITTEN ON THE BOX ON BIG BLACK BOLD LETTERS. If you don't, that is tantamount to customer deceit
2. I shall immediately return the kit and ask for a full refund
3. My personal opinion is a company that has been made aware by so many customers that a problem exists and actively acknowledge the problem but say it will not be fixed, deserves to lay in a ditch and die.
4. You have not only lost a customer, you lost many many more as everyone having this problem tells other potential customers not to buy your system.2 -
To those experiencing the buyer’s remorse which I think everyone here has experienced.. Tado are seemingly wholly motivated by growth and new business so I implore you to leave honest reviews and ratings on app stores and external review sites. These appear to be closely monitored by Tado support staff, who will try to get your feedback taken down if they disagree with it. It appears to be the only medium they understand.1
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@Rob when you said
"Our devices need an outside input when using a schedule, as they are not aware of time. Either from our servers, or a local Homekit host."
could you explain better how this input is given to the Tado devices? Why local Homekit host can do this and if there are other host like Home Assistant that could do the same?
Thanks
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could you explain better how this input is given to the Tado devices? Why local Homekit host can do this and if there are other host like Home Assistant that could do the same?
My understanding is that the Tado servers (which are aware of time) communicate with the Tado bridge in your house (which isn't aware of time). So when it's time to turn the heating on, the Tado server just sends a message at that point in time to tell the bridge to do the instruction.
When using Homekit, it is your Homekit hub/device that is effectively taking the place of the Tado server. It knows time and sends instructions to the Tado hub at the exact time points (e.g. when using Automations).
Re Home Assistant, my understanding is that because Tado does not offer an open API on the Tado bridge to allow apps like HA to give it instructions, then it isn't possible for HA to communicate directly with your Tado bridge.
It's via the Tado servers, or via a Homekit device only.
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@ziki Shoddy Engineering is what it is. Even if the device isn't aware of time and has to receive an instruction from the server on schedule 'on/off' changes, it's likely still technically possible to run on internal chip timing, even if the 'tick' drifts out over time.
Anyway, Tado have ignored the highest requested feature on their site and that tells you everything you need to know. Either they are technically no willing to try for their customers, or they are more interested in profit from paid-for features.
I will say, that for most people losing internet is not a major issue, but there are plenty of times when it could happen: A) if Bridge is running from an extender and someone switches it off. B) Your Wifi goes down, or the signal doesn't reach the Bridge reliably. C) Tado's server go down and all their customer lose the ability to run a schedule.
Mine is uninstalled and I have fitted a Drayton Wiser heat. Very happy with it and happy with the fact that if I lose my internet, the schedule for both water and heating will run as I'd set it, meaning I won't be A) losing money, because my heating is stuck on when I lose connection, B) My kids won't wake up freezing in the middle of winter, due to it locking off C) We won't not be able to have a shower because the hot water was stuck in the 'off' condition.
Plenty of reasons to be happy with my change to the Drayton.
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Just read that Tado smart schedule will not function without internet/Wi-Fi access and there is no back up service . We have dodgy internet access so cannot afford to take a chance on heating not coming on or not switching off when scheduled, so will be uninstalling and returning to seller. Really disappointed as I liked the product.1
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had a power outage today, therefore no internet... i already knew about always on internet requirement (after i bought lots of SRTs and Wireless Temp Sensors :( ), but what frustrated me the most was the fact that i had child lock on and was not able to manually control them. yes yes i know... take batteries out blah blah... do this for 10 radiators and for sure you'd want your money back
and another one... the bridge is wired only, so i had a power failure and my router went off (duuh!) but i had internet via my mobile... but there's no way (afaik) to connect wirelessly :(
so... I really like Tado, the app, the system etc etc... I have no issues with internet always on, it's a thing nowadays... BUT it sure needs an offline mode failback mode or something (pre setup or anything); it's nok like this
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@cezar Your boiler works without electricity?2
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A UPS , or just a car battery with an inverter, would fix that, but not 'the internet' being down in the entire neighborhood. The bridge could run on a powerbank.
But yeah, people probably forget their CH is like that DeLorean timemachine from the 1985 documentary, it needs both fossil fuel to burn and electricity for sparks, control and running the pumps..0 -
FYI my interim hot water bodge (Tado workaround).
I’ve woken up to tepid or cold water a few times in the last month, Tuesday being the last time. On this day I had to get an early train - I can tell you nothing ruins my day more than a cold shower in winter when I’m in a rush.
I can only assume Tado had issues (again), although who knows.. it could be an ISP problem, or perhaps my mesh dropped out, I’ll never know. But as long as Tado lacks any resilience I know I’m going to live in fear of the next time. It’s shouldn’t be like this, internet issues happen - it’s a fact of life.
Why oh why Tado can’t acknowledge that dependability is a desirable feature I’ll never understand.
Anyway the point of this post is that when Tado falls over, I’ve found it’s the loss of early morning HW that affect me the most. So I’ve bought a third-party HomeKit enabled 230v switch which I plan to wire in parallel to Tado’s HW control - it’s just a second relay control. If all goes to plan I’ll be able to use this switch to reliably manage the 4:30am hot water ON command, but Tado also remains in place for ad-hoc HW requests. Best of both perhaps? Let’s see.
Pretty mental that I have to conceive such workarounds, but here we are… it’s Tado and they seem to think they have far better features to spend their time on..
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If one used to have some sort of timer for HW control, and only disconnected it, not
throwing it away, it could be put in parallel (OR configuration) to try and ensure HW in the morning, or even in series (AND configuration) to force no heating at certain times, just in case tado goes crazy and tries to boil one's HW in the middle of the night due to a secret deal with the gas company...1 -
I have written several posts on my £30 workaround for the complete lack of control of Hot Water heating in Tado, check out my posts under the Hot Water threads.
Separately, I would make a couple of other comments, not to defend Tado who are doing a great job of ignoring this community much of the time (no disrepect to @Rob or @Jurian), but perhaps to help resolve some of the instabililty that some of you experience with your home networking and internet connectivity, or at least point you in the right direction.
Most people realise that Wi-Fi broadband routers have a limited capacity for client wireless devices, but the same is true for any wireless access point. When you use a meshed network, some of the client device capacity is "borrowed" to form the mesh with other nodes, the more nodes you have the fewer devices each mesh node can support. In my experience, in several different properties, of different construction materials and methods, mesh Wi-Fi is at best a sticking plaster for users with higher numbers of Wi-Fi devices. I'll assume that most people on this forum are experimenting with multiple smart technologies meaning lots of Wi-Fi devices that don't consume much bandwidth individually, but do join a wireless AP and contribute to connected client load. To note here, my home network currently reports around 150 devices in total at any one time.
This kind of load is patently too much for a small ISP router, both in terms of client connections and IP address assignment reliability. Mesh Wi-Fi might solve the client connection problem if you have enough nodes, but it will still rely on the router to do DHCP and DNS as well passing Internet traffic. The first thing to do is to try and get some clarity on how many devices you really have connecting to Wi-Fi and how they are distributed amongst the mesh nodes - too many clients connecting to a single node is the same problem.
Secondly look at your ISP service. Both BT and EE offer 4G connectivity backup on their broadband service, or consider adding a second 4G/5G service to your home, Three offer first three months at half price right now (£10/month) - especially attractive if you are in a rural area where mobile signal is OK but wired broadband services are slow and unreliable.
My personal solution to avoiding Mesh Wi-Fi and creating a resilient and reliable Internet connection is to use TP-Link EAPxxx access points connected to TP-Link switches, managed using their Omada SD-LAN/WAN platform. It's cheap enough to get started, each AP has an ethernet backhaul to the core network and TP-Link's router can manage multiple Internet services. I can create a dedicated IOT SSID on the access points and only allow 2.4Ghz on that SSID to make the installation of smart devices easier. The APs can mesh automatically if the backhaul is lost or you just need to extend the Wi-Fi quickly without dragging a cable, but Powerline Ethernet can work as a CAT5/6/7 or fibre substitute very happily.
My message is that it's easy not to notice the growth in the number of wireless devices connecting to your home network, and then to blame the instability on the broadband provider. Build a stable and scalable home network if you're serious about this kind of stuff, the number of devices connecting is growing all the time. That doesn't mean that Tado and others shouldn't be planning for days when the Internet or the servers that run things are down in their product design and implementation, but make sure that your problems are definitely not inside your own property and reduce the likelihood of an outage.
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Thanks @XKRMonkey good points.
I’m semi rural but with a pretty stable FTTC 80mb/20mb link, we’re close to the cabinet so get near to that with a low ping. Sadly no reliable 4G to speak of, but we are rumoured to have some community fibre (FTTP) options in the near future which could be interesting.
I have a 5 node Deco P9 system serving as my mesh network. I’m aware it’s only WiFi5 but have just 20-30 indicated connected devices.
I’m loathe to create a more complex network at this time and take your points on board but don’t think we are anywhere near power users yet. I’d be very surprised if Tado is hitting home network limitations given our current usage, especially at 4am.
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You could use Tado with home assistant without internet access. Don’t know if anyone already wrote this. Add the integration „homekit controller“ in HA and then it is possible to add the bridge. This way tado can be controlled offline via home assistant. Not the best solution, but it works. And i also agree: an offline mode is a must. It such a shame, from all tvrs tado in my opinion looks the best, but the the always on mode is a total deal breaker. If i wouldn’t be able to add it via home assistant and homekit, i would have gotten rid of them ages ago. Tado would be able to sell so many more devices, if it only had an proper offline mode. I alone had to tell at least 8 people not to buy tado just because of this one stupid reason.0
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Smart control of your heating and hot water?
Not so smart after all if all it takes is loss of internet and you turn in to a caveman with no heating.1 -
@Flow Thanks for your comments, assuming that your app can show you distribution of clients per AP, then you're in a good place.
The device creep is insidious though, we now all have smartphones, tablets, laptops and wi-fi connected wearables (watches, fitness devices etc), probably 4 devices per family member. We may have kids with consoles (PSx/XBox) so a few more devices there, streaming devices for TV, Smart Speakers. Newer consumer appliances (TVs, fridges, microwave oven even coffee machines) just for software updates, printers, doorbells, live feed cameras. Finally the growing smart footprint of things such as the Tado bridge, light switches and smart plugs or sockets and all the rest.
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I've just come across this issue whilst researching Tado v Hive v something else and as a result of it I can't consider Tado unless someone can tell me it's now solved. Even if I have one or two internet outrages a year it's simply not good enough for such an expensive piece of kit running an integral household function.
Reading this has been useful though as I'll check out the Drayton Wiser and think more about Hive despite the negative reviews on that too for other reasons.. and maybe just wait a few more years as it seems as if the technology is still too basic.0 -
well, it happened again, Virgin Media Broadband offline again, and this mean NO Hot Water control, THANKS TADO˚ for not allow me to change my hot water temp while offline, Looks like i'll be having a cold shower tonight!!!!
@Jurian Tado get your *naughtyword* together and FIX THIS CRAP!!!!!!
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@andyblac Shouldn't you be directing your ire at Virgin Media?
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To be fair, I'm with @andyblac, it's ridiculous.
@andyblac Might be too late, but you can turn on the hot water directly from your extension kit, which would at least allow you to have a warm shower! https://support.tado.com/en/articles/3387246-how-can-i-control-my-heating-system-when-the-radio-link-between-the-smart-thermostat-and-the-extension-kit-is-lost
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