Tado X - first impressions
I have installed Tado X system replacing my legacy Tado setup and wanted to share some feedback. Keen to hear what other early adopters have to say too.
There seems to be quite a few teething problems - hopefully they will be addressed.
The GOOD:
- matter (if it works)
- local (offline) routine storage
- Thread support
- TRVs much more quiet than the old ones
- rechargeable batteries in TRVs (but not in thermostats)
The BAD: - Quality - not as good as the older systems. Squeaky fittings, thermostats mounted on a backplate are loose at the bottom. I had to replace one thermostat as the pins were not soldered properly. Exposed part of circuit board in one of the temperature sensors covered in glue or other substance. TRVs feel cheap and plasticky (particularly the dials)
- not possible to select which device in the room is used for temperature measurement.
- Matter VERY iffy - sometimes takes multiple attempts to be able to generate Matter credentials for other apps (I had to add and remove one device 20 times before the Matter option appeared).
- Limit of 5 Matter controllers
- not possible to add multiple temperature sensors and/or thermostat[s] to the same room - it wasn't the case in the old system
- system topology differs between Tado app and Matter controllers - defying the very reason for Matter (compatibility and interoperatibility). Tado app follows the "room" concept whilst exposed to Matter it is "device" concept. It will be a major issue for everyone who had more than 1 radiator with TRV in the room. More about that in the separate thread:
- Wireless Temperature Sensors are "read only" devics in Matter - rather pointless as they can't be controlled - links witht the above issue.
- no "dazzle" mode
- no built in or separate presence/occupancy sensor to complement the routines.
The UGLY: - much bulkier than the previous generation
- black with white frame is standing out on the wall whilst the previous ones blended in nicely (Matter of preference, but still)
- Smart Radiator Thermostats have weird shape now - that makes them not fit in all places - whilst you can obviously twist them sideways it may mean that you can see the display easily. The old "traditional" design in my opinion was significantly better
- displays on thermostats and temperature sensors look cheap when lit up (a clear "frame" is visible). Similar issue with TRVs but less prominent
- still no multi home support
- Physical buttons look cheap and clunky compared to the capacitive design of older generations
I'd be keen to hear what other early adopters think and what are the plans from Tado to address those issues.
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Thanks for providing the feedback on X - It will be interesting to see what the early adopters views are. X launches in the UK in the autumn.
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Interesting (and useful!) feedback. I know certain mentioned missing features are coming and we are aware of and are dealing with some of the criticism on the hardware (mostly the wired/wireless thermostat). Also the Matter integration is a point of interest, partly because Matter itself is still such a young protocol. There are some 'new' or very rarely mentioned things in your list as well, which is interesting.
I know I'm repeating myself, but this kind of feedback is something I value and tend to save (to quantify) and forward to our developers. It will help making our products even better. I am not sure how my words on a screen are interpreted by others, but I mean this sincerely and without any kind of sarcasm.
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Hi @Rob ! Thanks for your response.
Would you be able to share which of the features/issues are being worked on?
With regards to Matter I think there should be a way to use it the "Tado way" - e.g. using the Tado topology and "rooms" concept - even if exposed via Matter. Or "device" concept - if Tado app is not used at all.
I think this could be simply achieved by emulating the exposition of the woreless sensor to Matter as a thermostat rather than sensor. I have ordered additional wired thermostat to test the approach (e.g. installing it without wiring - similarly to how in the legacy setup you could put the thermostat in a sensor mode). So far when I tested 2 TRVs in the same room - changing temperature setting of one seems to sync with the other (heat request).
I am happy to discuss any of the points further if this is something useful.0 -
Hi @Rob! I was wondering if there are any updates - particularly with regards to the wireless temperature sensors? I ordered additional wired thermostat just to test the approach and it (partly) works.
I was able to expose the additional wired thermostat (that is not wired to anything) via Matter. It allows then control of the entire room (similarly to the legacy setup). But it can be assigned solely to another zone controller (it can only be one of two controllers - which is a bit pointless). Lastly it does the clicking noise when closing/opening the circuit - which is again not necessary as it is not wired to anything.0 -
I heard a week or so ago that newly produced temperature sensors X will be seen by Matter as thermostats. I am not confident this is also true for existing ones. If it is as simple as a firmware update we will certainly apply this update. But honestly, the whole integration part into Matter is not my expertise.
For the (wired) Smart Thermostat, I don't think we can switch the relay (clicking noise) off from our end as there is no interface configuration for X. It auto-detects if there is an Opentherm connection. If it detects an Opentherm connection, it automatically deactivates the relay. When no Opentherm is detected, the relay is activated. We (support) cannot manually change anything there, like we could for V3+ and before as those had no auto-detect function.
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Ok. So I have 10 or so temperature sensors which seem to be obsolete soon. I think I still can return them to Amazon for a few more days. Would you be able to confirm whether the current ones will be upgraded or not and if not if there is any chance of getting them exchanged?0
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I upgraded my Tado Heat Pump Connector to the Tado HPO-X a few weeks ago.
Whilst I managed to get it working in my Matter/Thread Network pretty easily, the Thread connection and the Wifi connection were exactly unstable for the first few days. Since then it seems to be working better but I don't know whether this is due to new Firmware or just random chance.
Also, there are still features that were promised with the old HPC that are only now starting to trickle in, and often seem quite unpolished or simply don't work at all.
The recent "energy overview" always shows 0 for everything, the just launched "Solar Integration" only allows one array to he created which is silly since 90% of the Solar systems here are at least facing two different directions, often even 3.
So...there is a long way to go and who knows if Tado won't lauch a new lineup of Hardware before even half the Features have been implemented on the current one...🤷♂️1 -
@K_T
I think I was not very clear. I blame this on English not being my first language. My point is that I don't know with 100% confidence that the way these devices are recognised by Matter can be changed with a FW update. I presume it is no problem. I am merely not entirely sure.Okay, it has been made more clear to me. Apparently there is a limitation in an authentication key of Matter devices, in the sense that you cannot change the value of the key so they are detected as a different type of device. Wireless Temperature Sensors X (as in; wireless thermostats that do not have wiring terminals) produced before before a certain date will thus remain temperature sensors in Matter, while similar devices with a more recent production date will be seen in Matter as thermostats. This does not affect how these devices function in the tado app, but can have an effect on other platforms. For most people this is still of no consequence.
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Hi! After some additional time with the system I experienced two significant issues - I started separate threads for them however pasting the links here for continuity:
- issue with devices dropping off network
https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/24005/tado-x-devices-randomly-dropping-off-the-network#latest
- poor battery life of Smart Radiator Thermostats
https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/24006/tado-x-smart-radiator-thermostat-poor-battery-life/p1?new=10 -
@K_T thanks a lot for posting here the problems you have encountered.
About the problem with some Temperature Sensor X devices being certified in Matter as temperature sensor I believe that a good solution for many could be to apply temperature setting changes to one of the radiator thermostats in the room, rather than to the temperature sensor. Matter anyway works mostly with devices and not with rooms. The new set temperature and settings should propagate in the whole room via the tado° cloud and the temperature sensor temperature will still be the reference for controlling the room.
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Unfortunately this doesn't work for me. There is a reason for having a separate temperature sensor - as I have 2 TRVs in the room and want to measure the temperature in a specific place in the room.
This was however addressed by the support team and I was advised I will be able to exchange the sensors. Having the temperature sensor being recognised as a thermostat essentially resolves the issue of room vs device.
TBH domestic heating is quite a complex topic when it comes to smart home - perhaps it would make sense to work with the Connectivity Standards Alliance on the solution, where the local subcontroller is effectively responsible for the devices operating on a lower level. E.g. if there is a temperature sensor present then it directs behaviour of the devices connected to it (such as TRVs).0 -
As you said in a previous comment:
Wireless Temperature Sensors X (as in; wireless thermostats that do not have wiring terminals) produced before before a certain date will thus remain temperature sensors in Matter, while similar devices with a more recent production date will be seen in Matter as thermostats.Is it a way to check if my wireless thermostat X is affected?
Because i've open a support case but i'm not able to get a clear response.
I have a Tado X wireless thermostat + Receiver X . All is working fine with Tado Application, but i've added thermostat to Home Assistant pairing with matter. I can see as thermostat but is not acting over Tado X thermostat (not reflecting changes in tado X, neither in tado app). Sensors are reporting correctly.
Can you help me?
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@jordips Your device is seen as a thermostat, so I guess that solves it already. I believe the 'Firmware: 1.1' in your screenshot means it is of the newer batch that is seen as thermostat, where 1.0 devices would be seen as temperature sensors. But don't quote me on that.
The naming is confusing, as we can update firmware and this insinuates this is a firmware restriction. Which it is not.
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@Rob - apologies for the cross post here, but this is now where I'm at with tado Support. I'm at a loss:
I've contacted support and aside from being told there is a software bug in the firmware, also that these devices are also manufacture in July"
That's correct about the Matter certification but this is not related to the current issue where the Sensor X is not syncing with Apple Home. Some Sensor X's produced before August had a Matter sensor certification that limited the functionality of the sensor in third party platforms like not being able to set a temperature.In your case, it's related to the current firmware, as an older firmware shows that the Sensor X is working. If you like, can I ask for a firmware downgrade so that Sensor X will work properly with Apple Home until our developers release a permanent fix in a new firmware release"As for replacing them with devices manufactured AFTER August, I received the following:
"We are sending you one Smart Thermostat Wired to replace the two Wireless Temperature Sensors.We're glad to inform you that we’re shipping you anew devicetoreplaceyour damaged device"This makes no sense to me at all, aside from the cost differential. My boiler is controlled with the Wireless Receiver X. I have 2x Wireless Temperature Sensors to control 2 different areas/zones. This cannot be done using a single wired Thermostat. Previously using V3+, this same setup worked without any issue. I'm now at a loss as to what Tado Support is trying to achieve as this certainly doesn't address the issue. Seems that the Tado X products have been released well before they are ready and functional.Update - I have just been advised that tado are sending 2x Smart Wired Thermostats to address the problem. Here is hoping this fixes the issue
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Just received the replacement Smart Thermostat X's and have used them to replace the Wireless Temperature Sensor X. Seems that all is working as it should and also sync'ing with Apple Homekit and Home Assistant. 😀
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@rjblake
Appreciate you’ve only had the system operational for a few days/hours. Did you previously have Tado v3 integrated to HA and how does this compare?
I’ve been considering moving to Drayton Wiser, primarily because it offers the offline support. My Tado loses all connection to all Smart TRV’s, doesn’t run schedules and I have no control (all Smart TRV’s) are child locked due to having 2 young children so the app becomes useless and the house gets cold if our internet is down.
I like the integration I have with my Tado v3 and HA, using HA as the primary schedule and controller. The Tado app is them just a backup for me.0 -
I replaced my V3+ Tado with Tado X. Tado have now added the ability to request 'offline schedules' (you can find more here on this. Currently there is little/no real integration with Tado X and HA. There is a pull request to add more Tado X device support, but it missed the November cutoff, so will only be in 2024.12 release at earliest. For me the reasons where as follows:
- Matter support - no signal loss/outages for TRVs due to only 1x Tado Bridge and house over 3 levels separated by concrete floors
- Potential for longer battery life (unproven) - X TRVs have rechargable batteries
- Upright TRVs - better fit on some of my radiators
- 50% discount as long term Tado user
Downside:
- Quality & finish of the V3+ devices seemed better. X devices feel 'cheaper'
- API calls - not working in HA
- Wireless Temerature Sensor X - depends on hardware mfg. date as to functionality with 3rd party integrations
- Firmwares seem to be early releases and have some problems
- Cosmetic - Black covers and black windows on devices don't look as clean as white V3+ devices
- tado Support - a lot of options have pay walls and extra costs. Geofencing could use device built in features for this, but don't. Energy IQ is a bit of a joke, as doesn't consider gas usage from cooking, not can you factor this in. Also does not allow entry of decimals for m3 use (also applies to tado V3+)
for the rest, will see over the coming months
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Brill. Thanks.
The draw for me is the offline mode which Drayton Wiser has, hence having been looking at them and weighing up the cost of replacing the whole system.
Either way: Tado X or Drayton it’s a full replacement. At 50% I would have probably jumped already. I’ve had a 35% code sent to me as an ‘upgrade’ incentive. Which still makes it considerably cheaper. Minus the sale price of the current v3 system.
What is the connection back to your router? Wireless? Can’t see that there is a separate bridge/hub - is it built into the device that attaches to the boiler? I do prefer to have hubs and what not wired in.
Hmmm. Decisions decisions.0 -
I received the replacements but similarly to @rjblake these are Wired Thermostats. Unlike the V3 setup where it was possible to set the Wired Thermostats in the sensor mode here it is not possible. I am also unable to remove it from being a zone controller.
I don't understand why the Wired Thermostats were sent instead of the "upgraded" Wireless Temperature sensors...0 -
I installed Tado X to my s-plan heating system at the weekend replacing my Tado V3 that I purchased when they first released (2016 maybe?). I have automated door locks, smoke alarms, multi-room speakers etc etc but Tado has always been the one I tell people about. The geo-fencing is such a good feature and Tado has always been 100% reliable.
So first thoughts on the new Tado x - I have a starter kit including the programmer with hot water control, and a wireless thermostat.
The Bad:
- The quality of the components is not as good as before. The old V3 had a Google Nest quality to them and looked great. The new programmer feels cheaper by comparison and looks bad on the wall because the overly bright LEDs 'bleed' into the thin plastic surround.
- The quality of the wireless thermostat is not as good as before, the black front looks cheaper and when the display is on again you can see the LED board and the light bleeds through the black plastic
- The wireless thermostat falls off the wall bracket! I cut and installed two small pieces of felt tape on the inside of the holding tabs and it is now fixed, but should not have needed to engineer a brand new product!
Improvement request:
- With V3 I could set some of the Hot Water schedules to run regardless of home / away. This was useful to heat up the water cylinder in time for the kids getting back from sport or gym. This option is now missing - please bring it back!
- Please put a wiring diagram in the box, the wizard for replacing the current boiler timer is fine, except I didn't have one, just a first edition Tado programmer. I had to guess at a timer that might have worked with my boiler in s-plan to check where to put the jumper wires (supplied)
The Good:
- Schedules saved locally so the heat and water will work if the broadband is down
- Physical buttons on the programmer to boost heating or hot water (my early V3 programmer had neither, I think later ones did)
- It was easy to install and set up, good that it has built in wi-fi now so removed the need for an ethernet connected extra wi-fi hub
- The thermostat looks good (but only really when the display is not lit)
I remain a huge Tado fan but I am definitely disappointed with the hardware quality on this early X release.
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I recently 'upgraded' my V3+ system to Tado X throughout my house. The main driver for doing so was for improved connectivity, as the extreme ends of my house always seemed to drop connection regularly (Bridge sat as close to a central position as possible) which was very annoying. To this end, Tado X has delivered so far; using Matter/Thread means that I can just plonk some Apple devices (which I already have) strategically around the house and no more dropped connections - so far this seems to have solved my connectivity issues completely.
However, as has been brought up here on several threads, there are several features of V3+ that are nowhere to be seen in X. I thought I'd compile a list, which people can add to if they want, so we can see the differences in one place. So what I have noticed so far:
- There doesn't seem to be any way to choose which device to use for temperature measurement in the app - previously in rooms where you have multiple TRVs, you could select which one to use for measuring the temperature. In rooms where you have TRV and Wireless Temp Sensor, it appears to use the WTS (as you would expect), but no control over it.
- Schedules are now separate for every day, whereas previously you could have a 'Monday to Friday' and a 'Weekend' section. It's a little bit more of a faff now but not so bad since the copy and paste function remains.
- There's no 'early start' mode. I never really used this on V3+, because it seemed to always turn my heating on about 3 hours too early even though it only takes about half a hour on average to bring a room up to temperature, but the feature's gone all the same.
- All or nothing heating - this is just something I've noticed and it could be a bug, but where on V3+ it used to just open the TRV slightly for low heat mode (I think there are about three different levels), or more fully if it needed more heat, my X TRVs seem to be either fully closed or fully open, with nothing in between. This seems to lead quite often to over-heating (i.e. a room is set to 20 degrees but will be at about 22 or 23 by the time it's finished its heating cycle).
One other thing I've noticed (and I assume this to be a bug) is that some of the TRVs need 're-mounting' occasionally. I went into a room the other day and it was like a sauna, nearly 30 degrees. I checked the TRV and it was on firmly but when I tapped the screen, it wanted to go through the mounting process again (hold for three seconds and let it do its calibration). Once done it has been fine since. This has happened on two radiators so far (out of 11).
I've not noticed much else as yet, and on the whole I'm happy that my major issue with V3+ (connectivity) has been solved. But it would be good to get the above back as currently it feels a bit beta.
Interested to hear others' Tado X experiences and will be interesting to see how it develops.
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@Treskelion1959 Thanks for posting that, I am sure people will find it useful. Just a couple of observations on a couple of your points:
Preparations, point 5 - I think the Tado app requires you to actually delete your V3+ home before embarking on Tado X set up, at least it did for me, so there is now no option but to start from a fresh app/home.
Installation, point 2 - The Wireless Receiver X is indeed a Thread Border Router, there is no need to get a Bridge if you have the Receiver (I have no Bridge in my set up) unless, I think, the Receiver is too far away from your internet router.
I actually found the set up to be fairly seamless and intuitive. I particularly like the way the app guides you through the installation of the Wireless Receiver for wiring up to the boiler, though I thought it interesting that among the many types of controller that you can tell it you are replacing, the old V3+ Extension Kit (which is where I was coming from) was not among them!!
Installation of the individual TRVs is also well guided within the app and after the first couple becomes fairly routine. Overall switch from V3+ to X took me a couple of hours one evening (not including faffing around with creating schedules).
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