Optimizing Tado for Dual Underfloor Heating Zone Management

Theboundary

Hello Everyone,

I'm in need of technical support regarding my recent system upgrade. Please bear with me as I provide some context to ensure clarity. My apologies if this matter has been addressed previously; I've searched but couldn't locate relevant information.

Historically, I utilized an oil boiler, but I've recently transitioned to an air-source heat pump. Consequently, I no longer require Tado to manage hot water, as this function is now handled between the water tank and the Air Source Heat Pump. However, I do need assistance in managing the two underfloor heating zones I have.

Initially, my system comprised two Honeywell Programmers, with one controlling the hot water and the other managing the UFH zones upstairs and downstairs effectively.

Upon transitioning to Tado, we consolidated the UFH into a single zone using the wireless receiver. Smart Tado thermostats were then wired in each room to regulate the TRV on both the 1st floor and ground floor UFH manifolds.

With the introduction of the heat pump, I aim to revert to having two distinct UFH zones, without concern for heating the water in the tank, now managed by the heat pump controller. I've come across suggestions online advising the installation of wired thermostats into the boiler room for each zone, which Tado could potentially configure to function as receivers for the zones. However, I'm uncertain about the accuracy of this information and unsure about the subsequent steps to take.

Summary of Heating System:

Samsung 16kw Heat Pump

Upstairs & Downstairs UFH

Wired Smart Thermostat Tado in each room controlling that rooms UFH

Tado Wireless Receiver.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

policywonk

Hi. Need some clarification.

1. The UFH. I presume, from your descriptions that that appears as two specific manifolds, one for the ground floor, one for the first floor. Please confirm.
2. The UFH manifolds usually come with a dedicated pump and UFH flow thermostat - and these are normally mated to a local wired UFH controller, which when one or more of the individual actuators is being informed by a thermostat that heat is needed, it (a) opens the actuator (b) turns on the manifold's UFH pump, (c) usually throws a dedicated two port valve, and (d) informs the heat pump that heat must be supplied. Are your manifolds also married individually to a pump, two port valve, and wired controller?
3. Are your UFH room thermostats wired right now, or wireless?

I ask because each UFH actuator is normally switched on by a wired thermostat. The wired thermostat can be set up to switch more than one UFH activator, but from my experience, it is best to limit the thermostat to control no more than 3 actuators. Actual demand for UFH heat varies considerably from room to room by time of day and if you want to save money, and prevent the UFH developing cold spots, this would be a good idea.

Ideally a Tado wired thermostat, strapped to the manifold's controller, can provide that logical switching.

If you cannot run wired thermostats in each room, then it is possible to configure the wired thermostats as proxy stats, taking their instructions from other thermostats, wirelessly placed. In this setting, you'll need your old Tado extension kit to act as the wireless bonding agent.

Does this help the thought process?

Theboundary

Hey

Thanks for the Fast Response.

Response to 1 & 3: Correct, there are two separate manifolds one for the upstairs and one for the downstairs. All of the upstairs has wired smart thermostats back to the upstairs manifold controlling those TRV's and the same story for the downstairs (See photos).

Response to 2: The first picture shows the historic setup when i first moved to the property. The top controller controlled the Hot Water / Pump and the bottom controller the two UFH zones. When i moved to Tado we initially put the two zones on together ultimately leaving the house on 1 UFH but controlled at each manifold by each TRV.

The second picture shows the setup now. Basically, it's all linked down to the wireless programmer from Tado. The hot water pump and hot water demand come on together on the hot water side and similar story with the Heating control where the two zones come on together. The idea was at the time i would just have one zone and physically control it with the TRV's into each room.

Here are some pictures of the new setup with the new heat pump tank installed. The hot water is controlled separately by a controller on the tank that also manages the Heat pump, so I don't need the system to manage the hot water aspects.

You can see on the tank on the bottom is the heating portion. One pump and the two actuators are what control upstairs and downstairs. At present there is a cable running from the Existing setup to the new tank zone control and zone 1*2 linked.

From what it sounds like where the two single boxes are i might need to have some controllers and possibly look to run another cable to the controller on the tank that activates the second zone? that way I wouldn't need the wireless receiver?

Hopefully that helps, thanks again for your help?

policywonk

First of all your Plumber is amazing, neat and proud of his standards. Thought it all through before he cut his pipes.
Second. It seems that there are three two port zone valves. I presume that one belongs to downstairs, one to upstairs. The third seems to be hot water.
If what I suspect is correct, the UFH manifold wiring controller for upstairs turns on one two port valve, while the one downstairs switches the second two port valve. If that's correct the call for heat comes from the manifold controllers individually, triggered by the relevant thermostats. And your tado thermostats are doing their job well.
Am still lost. Where is the problem in practice, for you?

Theboundary

Hey

Thanks i am really happy with their work they have done a fantastic job. So in the picture you see there are the two actuators and those are the actuators that control the zoning for the underfloor heating, a similar section at the top of the tank is what controls the hot water.

I think this is where the system gets a little more difficult. Right now, the two heating zones act as one, so any call for heat is opening up both those actuators as far as the manifolds. When you look at the old zone configuration where the bottom programmer controlled each one of those manifolds, I can't do that anymore. (Heating up & Heating Down)

When I setup the wireless receiver because the receiver didn't do zone control, I ended up linking the heating zones together to create the single zone which in return allowed me to connect to the receiver?

Hope that makes sense>

Carl

Theboundary

Just to add the system I've been looking into and now at the moment the TRV's are no longer opening or closing? also the pump for the UFH upstairs is also no longer on so there's a link in the system I'm guessing now not working. Il do some more investigation work but feel this one might need a technical visit to my home

Regards

policywonk

It will need some diagnostics. All manifold wiring controllers are designed to open their respective two port valves when one of their thermostats identifies a heat deficiency. They register the call for heat, throw relays that a) turn on their respective pump, (b) turn on the manifold actuators that relate to the specific thermostat that is asking for heat and (c) pass on the heat request to what they believe is the boiler, but probably is the Tado extension box. The wiring isn't difficult because you have two way valves which save the need for a large external relay box to be used. In practice the tado thermostats seem to be driving the show. Now if the pump doesn't turn on when there is heat demand, it is best first to check whether the valve opened first. If it didn't I suspect the relay in the relevant manifold wiring control box has failed. If you are comfy with handling the wiring, you might consider replacig the suspect controller box. Have used Salus boxes myself, found them practicql, cheap, easy to apply.