Help Planning my Installation.. Please!
Hi - Newbie
here and I recently purchased a new house, larger SQft than I have had before. Its brick built 1999 5 bed detached. It runs a Potterton Suprima 80, with a Horstmann controller and a huge hot water tank. No cold water tank in loft. I believe this boiler needs at least 1 non-tv rad and a bypass?
There are 19 rads in total - controlled with a single wired stat in the hall. Bearing in mind the 10 zone limit - I am trying to work out the best way to configure the layout. I attach my ideas for review please!
1) In a room with multiple Rads - should I use a wireless Stat with Smart TRV?
2) In rooms with ensuites - should I change the current non try rads to try and link to the bedroom using wireless stat?
3) D/stairs hall should remain non TRV along with cloak in a zone with upstairs landing
4) really want the dining room separate as it sown zone - but don't think I can make it work
5) Study on the plan is actually now a playroom and the 2 smallest bedrooms are both offices (we work from home full time). Also one of these is planned to be a nursery long term so need them under their own control.
Sure Ive missed something or made it more complicated than needed! On the attached I have given a Key - I have also numbered the rooms to be contained in each Zone. Do these work?
Appreciate any help - I have purchased the V3+ inc. hot water and 8 TRV pack, so need to confirm what else I need please..
Many Thanks in advance...
Answers
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One observation I would have is your downstairs hallway which you've called Zone 1, where your main wired thermostat will be. The thermostat will not be fully in control of that Zone. As the downstairs hallway will not have a TRV the main thermostat will attempt to switch the heating off once up to temperature, however if another room calls for heat, then the hallway radiator will also heat up anyway. You might find therefore that the hallway stat always reads over temperature - or hotter than you would like.
I'd be tempted to put a TRV on the downstairs hall radiator as well such that the main wall thermostat is properly in control of that Zone.1 -
I'm not (yet) a Tado expert, but I have recently moved over from Hive and I have a longstanding relationship with so-called "smart" heating. These are some of my own observations from using, designing and developing smart systems:
- Ignore bathrooms in the context of smart control. I use the house bathroom as the least controlled (ie, the path of last resort without any control at all), and en-suite and other cloakrooms have dumb (wax) TRVs. This is mainly because unlike the living spaces in a home (or office), you simply cannot predict when someone is going to want to use the bathroom. It therefore makes no sense to try to control it, better to let it heat whenever there is a demand for other heat in the system.
- Some may feel the same way about hallways or landings, but in my current home I use SRVs in both zones, but I disable "Open Window" mode because of you don't then everytime you answer the door you shut down the zone for a period.
- All downstairs zones (rooms) I have used smart thermostats to control the SRVs, but each room (and the hallway) are their own zone, although in some rooms I have more than one radiator linked to a single room thermostat as the controlling device. This gives me the comfort I want in areas of the house where people are most likely to spend the most time, and that time is likely to be sedentary and so small changes in temperature or simply the "wrong" temperature is very noticeable.
- All upstairs zones (bedrooms and the landing) I am relying on the SRV temperature for control. Actually this seems to be adequate (most people simply get up and dress, or undress and get into bed for the most part, so accurate controls, even temperature management and such like is less critical as it's less likely to be noticed if it's not perfect. That said, I am contemplating additional thermostats for the bedrooms, but I think it's an unnecessary extravagance really.
- My schedules are carefully constructed and have been tweaked over the last couple of weeks.
- I have 10 zones, and 20 devices in total.
The house is pleasantly warm all the time now.
I hope these notes help you with your planning!
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OK, so looking at your detailed plan, I might suggest that you take this approach:
Zone 1 - Hallway (SRV) and Landing (SRV) with Smart thermostat in hallway (away from the door and without open window enabled)
Zone 2 - Kitchen/Diner SRVs with Smart Thermostat
Zone 3 - Dining Room SRVs with Smart Thermostat
Zone 4 - Lounge SRVs with Smart Thermostat
Zone 5 - Study SRVs with Smart Thermostat
Remaining downstairs room using wax TRV - cloakroom and utility have no real use pattern and they'll just stay comfortably warm all day if there is heat demand in the house.
For each bedroom use SRVs, I would probably add a Smart thermostat in the master bedroom.
En-suite and house bathroom use wax TRVs.
I woud probably make the house bathroom your "always open" - looks to be a reasonable size, and well heated is always welcome in a bathroom.
That gives you the dining zone you want. Remember that warm air rises, so your landing will always be warmer than your hallway. You probably don't need an SRV on the landing (I do have one since I treat hallway and landing as two zones because I don't need the extra zone for anything else).
I hope that this helps.
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Thanks all - this makes sense.
I have made a possible error with my purchase - I’ve just opened the box and realised that I have bought a wireless v3+ starter kit and not a wired one.
what should I do? Can I simply disconnect the current wired one and replace with the wireless one in the same position (to cover the hole) or do I need to buy an wired kit for it to work?
again - help appreciated- was going to install this weekend!
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I think it depends on the date of manufacture. Older wireless kits consisted of a standard thermostat (same as wired) plus an "extension kit" that is the wireless receiver that can be wired to the boiler instead of the thermostat. Or it can be left unused and the thermostat can control the boiler.
Newer kits apparently are shipped with a "temperature sensor" that is no longer able to control the boiler, and a "wireless receiver" that connects to the boiler.
Of course you can still connect the system as if it is wireless and just not use the wires. I.e. connect the receiver with a short wire to the boiler, and mount the temperature sensor on the wall where the thermostat used to be (without connecting it).
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It’s the latest version I believe:
Starter Kit V3+
Wireless Smart Thermostat
Incl. Programmer with Hot Water Control
Contains
Internet Bridge
Wireless Temperature Sensor
Wireless Reciever0 -
Put your wireless stat to cover the hole, ignore the in-wall wiring and mount the receiver near the boiler control wiring block (probably next to the boiler). You can disconnect the thermostat wiring in the control block - it's basically a loop between the mains live -> through the wall thermostat -> back to the boiler demand connection. Your Receiver just needs a connection from the CH ON terminal to the boiler demand terminal.
Assuming you're also using the receiver to activate hot water, you're probably going to need to connect that to the hot water solenoid activation (usually brown) wire running onto the solenoid valve. DO NOT be tempted to connect the HW ON terminal straight to the boiler demand unless you're certain that you don't have a solenoid that needs to operate because the operating signal for the solenoid isn't the demand signal for the boiler - the solenoid creates the demand only once it has successfully opened - it's a failsafe to stop the boiler running when there is no heat sink available...
These are easy connections to make yourself, provided you know where the existing components are and are competent enough to understand the current wiring (or happy to rewire the whole lot to the right config). If you're unsure, then a decent electrician will be able to help. Similarly, if you need to run new cabling in to reach the devices, you may prefer to use an electrician anyways.
Good luck !
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