What's the best way to setup for expected results?
I currently live in a 2 story, 105 sq m house.
Using gas boiler Wolf FGB K 28 as a heating source. There are 2 manifolds, ground and top floor with 4 and 5 zones respectively. Using non-programable Uponor T-23 as room thermostats where applicable. There's no additional recirculation pump - gas boiler does all the work.
Ground floor:
- Living room - room thermostat and tado temperature sensor, set to 22 (most of the time) and 22.6 (morning/evening).
- Toilet and entry hall - no thermostat
Top floor:
- Bedroom, kid's room, home office - room thermostat set to around 21.5-22
- Bathroom - no thermostat
With this setup I currently have couple problems:
- In the morning, bathroom (top) doesn't get warm enough (closer to 21.5-22)
- Wasting energy on heating up living room, as I'm working on top floor all day
I tried temporarily putting temperature sensor in the bathroom, but then it was a bit vice-versa:
- In the evening, when wife returns from work, living room is at around 21-21.5 and only way to increase is by increasing temperature on remote sensor. Again - with some energy being wasted.
- Bathroom heats up from the shower followed by intense hair drying - tado goes crazy.
I'd like to hear out your ideas and opinions. Maybe you see some flaws in the system as well.
Any insights greatly appreciated!
Answers
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Not sure I completely follow your zoning. Sounds like 2 zones (ground and first) but you refer to 4 and 5 zones. Am I right in thinking the system has 2 zone valves and the additional micro-zoning is through tado TRVs?
If the bathroom isn't getting warm enough, that could well be your system balancing and nothing to do with tado. If I follow correctly, you don't currently have a tado TRV in there?
Could you avoid heating the lounge unnecessarily during the day (using a set back temperature), through programming a schedule, or would that result in the rest of the downstairs area being unacceptably cool?
As you've seen already, don't put a stat in the bathroom. Some people seem to put tado TRVs in there. Not sure why, as you NEED the bathroom to get too warm at certain times (e.g after showering, to help clear the condensation) and a TRV will just close off the heating when you're in your birthday suit! Proper balancing will stop it getting too hot the rest of the time.
Final thought - how are you managing boiler flow temperature? Are you on tado modulation, weather compensation, or straight fixed flow? Given you feel certain areas are too cool, it sounds like whichever you're using, you could do with notching it up a bit, or otherwise, if you're setting back temperatures, maybe don't set back so far or so long.
Hope that helps
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Hey,
I see that I never mentioned that I use UFH in both floors.
It's also worth mentioning I'm using tado wireless starter kit.
Ground floor manifold has 5 zones:
- Entry
- Toilet
- Living room area (3 zones) - Tado wireless temperature sensor is placed in this room.
Only the living room area has a thermostat (Uponor T-23 - it's a very basic one) which controls those 3 zones valves.
Top floor has manifold 4 zones:
- Bedroom
- Kid's room
- Home office
- Bathroom
Bedroom, kid's and home office are 3 different zones, valves controlled by separate thermostats (same as above).
Bathroom doesn't have a valve control and neither a thermostat (same as entry and toilet on ground floor).
I can set the max flow temperature on the boiler and tado modulates accordingly, though it never really goes to full temp so it doesn't reach the maximum flow rate either.
When boiler runs at full flow temperature, flow meters for larger zones (i.e. living room, top floor rooms incl bathroom) are set to around 2.5l/min, whilst bottom entry and toilet are at around 1l/min, as I don't really need them warm.
Let me know if you think that makes sense at all or if the setup has flaws.
It seems like whoever installed this, might have skipped a step or two and saved a hefty amount of cash, lol.
Appreciate your insights on this and helping me learn the UFH heating.
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I doubt I'm going to be able to help you learn much about the UFH as I've no experience of it whatsoever.
What does intrigue me, is how you've got tado plugged into this.
You said you have the wireless sensor in the lounge. Am I right in thinking the receiver is therefore plugged straight into the boiler?
You also mentioned modulating. Which tado version are you running? The current (v3+) wireless UK version doesn't modulate. It's relay only. It does use TPI though, as crude 'relay modulation' (switching on/off to maintain set temperature). Do you have a different version?
If I am right, and you have tado plugged back into the boiler, does that mean the other stats are simply opening and closing off their respective UFH zones, and it's tado that's acting as the master for the call for heat and scheduling?
I'm thinking your lounge located tado stat is currently the sole reference point for the call for heat from the boiler. If it is modulating (load compensation - e.g. OpenTherm), it's also the reference point for the required flow temperature, which is somewhat of a flaw with load compensation in comparison to weather compensation. The former determines flow temperature from demand in a single indoor location. The latter, from the temperature outside, which impacts the heat loss - and hence demand - for the whole property. Load compensation can easily throw off the rest of the property, if the heat demand changes in its sole indoor location compared to elsewhere - e.g. when everyone is sitting in the lounge adding body heat to the room, or when the window is opened in that location.
Therefore, in your set up, you might be better finding a central location that's less impacted by other heat sources. That might actually be your entrance hallway (some would say old fashioned, but it works for us), as long as you don't site it too near the front door. You'll probably need to experiment a bit.
Also, now I think I understand that you have the separate UFH room stat in the lounge, you almost certainly don't want the tado sensor in there unless you set the UFH stat above the tado target temperature. Otherwise, the tado sensor is redundant (UFH will go off before you hit tado temp).
I'm also assuming your boiler doesn't have weather compensation (an external sensor) fitted, to modulate flow temperature?
Apologies if any of the above is obvious. Just trying to fill in the gaps to ascertain how you'd like the tado kit to enhance your set up.
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