TRV call for heat but open with a delay causing my boiler to get in to an error state.
Answers
-
@srichards is your SRT installed using one of the adaptors? It doesn't happen to be one with the extension pins does it?
Everything below is speculation on my part...
The reason I ask is it almost sounds like the wrong length has been used and perhaps in combination with tado tweaking their algorithm for how much valves open means yours isn't opening enough so the radiator doesn't appear to warm up.
You've then unscrewed it which allows more flow through, but now it doesn't close properly anymore.
As you've now also set it to independent, it can no longer directly tell the boiler to stop firing. So once it's up to temp, it tries to close (but now can't fully due to being unscrewed), but the boiler keeps firing (as it's now being controlled by another device) and therefore is still supplying hot water to that radiator, and then the temperature overshoots as you're seeing.0 -
Nope. No adaptor is used. It fits straight on.
In independent mode the radiator valve just seems to open more. If it is in the other boiler control mode it doesn't. It just doesn't open enough and even with turning it 4 turns higher it still didn't open enough. Switched it to the independent mode without moving the SRT and wallop instant heat and the room gets to the target temperature easily as it turns up the valve more.
I've turned the SRT mount back down to the bottom where it can get the full range so it is in the original position now essentially. Overshoot is less but the SRT radiator still gets enough heat to heat the room properly which is what I'd expect.
0 -
Well this is interesting, despite a couple of threads where it seems Tado have been able to adjust the Tado smart TRV opening percentages, I've been offered the option for the central controller to instead ignore calls for low heat and not fire the boiler, and on the subject of adjusting the valves...:
"with the changes that we make the goal is to have that the Smart Radiator Thermostats will be calling for low heat as they normally do but the Extension Kit will ignore them.
We cannot influence the physical behaviour of the pin inside the Smart Radiator Thermostat. We can only modify some parameters of the algorithm the use so that they don't trigger the boiler when there is a low heat request."
So... like I don't know where that leaves me. I don't want the boiler to only fire on medium to low heat, I want the TRVs to work to allow gradual heating and cooldown without the boiler running and running to no effect. This is... really disappointing, let's say.
They should change their set up advice to be explicit that you should only install TRVs in less frequented rooms that need micro control, this is not a system suitable for whole-house use. One radiator in one room occasionally calling for heat that it can't let in is one thing. When all 7 radiators do it at least once a day it's costing me a fortune, and it's got worse over time: this October has cost me 2x last years' kwh already - 184 compared to about 90.
I've managed to curtail this the last two days by setting my schedules up like a dogs breakfast: during heating periods I have set the rooms to just come on to a high temperature for 15 minutes every few hours, instead of relying on the tado to gently warm and flatten out the heating curves. The only benefit Tado gives me is that I can offset those 30 minute periods so that there's less heat being used at once, and so the rads that kick in later in a given period can make use of some already warm water.
But even then - even then - if a room hasn't cooled enough by the time the next 30 minute heating kicks in, it can call at low heat and spend the whole 30 minutes doing nothing at all. I have to watch the damn system like a hawk and if after 15 mins of a room heating the rad hasn't warmed up, knock up the TRV manually to force multiple heat bars then shut it off again - the valves only seem to have a problem with fine control on the opening cycle, not the closing cycle.
So yeah, I've now set it to basically what I don't want: what Tado were suggesting they set it to do, call for more heat when it calls. So why not let Tado do that then - it'd probably stop those remaining instances where I have to manually bump it up, right?
2 reasons:
- the graphs man, the graphs! There'd be all these grey patches with nothing happening it would be proper irritating to have to try to ignore chunks of it. Forcing the TRVs to open on medium only will hobble another part of the system I pay a sub for (not for long, I assure you).
- what's the point of a system that needs 1/3rd of it's capability nerfing?
I can't trust the system, it's using far more kwh than not having it, and all Tado can suggest is hobbling their own system so it doesn't know what low heat is. Amazing.
It's exhausting and whilst its far better now I've butchered the schedules, it is still costing more money than when I had one smart TRV on the office radiator and just relied on the central thermostat.
SO glad I didn't chuck my old dumb TRVs. Think I'll be spending today refitting them on all the common or incidental rooms (that's all of downstairs and one bedroom that might as well just take a bit of excess heat when the heating is on).
Very, very disappointed with Tado, the lack of consistency in their offer, and the lack of transparency over what the system is and isn't capable of, even internally. Even more disappointed with how little Tado seem to monitor and contribute to their own forums on a thread like this, whilst not offering a phone line meaning you can only really converse with them via one message a day if you work. That's really bad.
3 -
Mine hardly fires the boiler on the low demand anyway. It often counts it as heating time which is even more idiotic.
Independent mode is still better and doesn't lead to the boiler staying on for ages as Tado software has turned off the radiator with the Tado SRT that is asking for the heat.
0 -
Same problem here, it's ridiculous.0
-
The part about not being able to trust the system, and (feeling) you have to watch it like a hawk rings so true.Unfortunately, I also have a job, so I can't be on the app all the time, while sitting next to the boiler and babysit the tado algorithm; when one isn't home, that is when proper automation is needed.
As I'm not the trusting type anyway, the only work I put in the schedules was to initially set them all to permanent baseline temperatures about 2 degrees lower than I actually want, and I did NOT put any controls on the large underfloor heating in the main kitchen/livingroom. So at least any spurious heat produced by rooms asking for heat but not opening their radiators enough has somewhere sensible to go, instead of just the glorified towel rack in the laundry/boiler/2nd-bathroom in the attic. Occupants of the house will have to play conductor for the system in their respective rooms, like they used to do before, but at least they don't have to go down to the main room to toggle the thermostat, or manually reach for valves in hard to get to places to adjust them.
Essentially I'm not using a schedule at all, just made the heating controls a bit more easy to do.
Probably the fix for the specific issue in this thread would be to do proper calibration of each radiator, to find out where the dead zones and hysteresis in pin movement are, and what amount of opening/closing them corresponds to the flowrates the system thinks it should. Instead of just figuring out the range of pin movement and assume a simple correspondence between
that and the rate at which a tadiator heats up..0 -
Yeah, it has nothing to do with the valve type. I have 4 pre-installed valves with everyone being a different type (I've had to use 3 different adapters that came with the kit) and 3 new ones where the thermostat just screws on.
They all have the same problem.0 -
Mine are working ok with SRTs as independent. I have put another on the lounge radiator to control that a bit better. I have to set a 2c negative offset otherwise it's just way off.
I have set the main tado wall stat to a temperature that means the two SRTs get heat when it's on and they usually then open up more than they would so I think it's more efficient as it bangs heat into both rooms as much as possible. Then usually the main temperature has fallen by the time those rooms have fallen back. If they haven't it doesn't matter either as they'll trim the excess anyway. It's basically like going back to a normal radiator stat and that works far better than being 'clever' with a slower older system.
When the SRT could ask for heat the heating was coming on all the time for short times and the radiator got no heat at all a lot of the time so it was basically wasting gas. Heating was also staying on for hours trying to heat a room with a radiator that it had turned off. Wasting more gas.
0 -
I am so happy to know that I am not the only with this problem. Technical support is helpless. I bought everything I thought I needed to make the system work properly and now I feel like I wasted my money. The thermostat calls for heat when the temp is -0.1 but the valves don’t open. What a disappointment.0
-
I have to say I've had quite a pleasant experience with Tado support. I've explained my issue (sent the graphs to demonstrate it). After maybe two messages exchanged, the support engineer understood what I wanted and set all of my radiator valves to turn on to 100% whenever the heat is needed*. I've tested it, and it needs at least 8% displayed in the app to turn on the flow, but it's much better than it was.
0 -
Hi @Hiavata, glad to know they fixed it!
At that time, I asked a similar thing, to open the valve 100% anytime there was any request, but they said it was not possible. They must have change something in the meantime.
I have a question: how do u calculate the 8% request? In the app you can see only the 1-2 or 3 waves of heat request…
Thanks
Alessandro0 -
I have it in the heating activity (under Care & Protect). It could be due to the subscription, that it's a paid feature, not sure to be honest.
1 -
When i opened this topic last year i already had a solution for my boiler going into a error state(i removed the TVR in the bathroom). But still the delay in requesting heat and opening the valves is present resulting in overheating my bathroom, but that is more acceptable than a boiler that does not work.
Since then we moved to a heatpump and we stopped using tado.
I think it is pritty bad that a company selling a heating solution system has some basic flaws in them!
---Starting a boiler when all radiator valvles are still closed is such a basic flaw i cant get my head around it. From a software standpoint this should be a easy fix... First open a TVR then instruct the boiler....
--- a working internet connection to controle a heating schedule(we have a mobile connection only, it drops sometimes. ';/ )
Good luck to the people still having this problem!
0 -
I just realized something... our AC is using Tado for schedules and geofencing ect.
Now that i think back to summer that system also had a delay! The app shows cooling to 25c but the AC was still off, only minutes later i hear the tado beeb sending the command to the AC.
Maybe these 2 things are related. Speculation: Tado is using queues that contain instructions and the queue workers that send instructions to the actual devices are to slow, or the queue is to big. More customers = more delay?
0
